The Safrane.Info Forum!

Okay folks, prompted by the experts here, I'm asking for advice.
I'm looking to get a Saf, having driven large Citroens (CX and XMs) for the past decade, so I'd like something large, comfortable and quirky (I'm currently driving a Merc C250TD as a stopgap and the suspension is terrible after the Cits!)
Which is the best one to go for? I've seen ad listings saying that the Phase 2 2.5 is the best model. While the V6s will have more cachet to them, what are the drawbacks? How far down in quality are the 2.0 and 2.2 models if at all? Are there any diesels left, and are they as sluggish as net reviews claim? Is the Volvo 2.5 diesel engine worth considering as an engine swap for the petrol version on the 2.5? (I'm guessing it might be cheaper than the £1500 LPG conversion listed elsewhere.
So what are the things to look out for on each model, are any problems difficult to fix, and what should the aspirign purchaser avoid like the plague?

Many thanks in advance,
Dave.

Welcome David.
I will start buy saying that i actually know only a small amount about Phase 2s,theres several members who are far more knowledgeable about these than me.
What i would say is that the running gear on a Phase 2 is very strong and reliable,this would explain why there are more Phase 2s than Phase 1s which are now getting very rare.
By the time the phase 2 was launched Renault had dropped alot of toys from the Saframe and only a few options where on the list,electric seats,CD multichanger,heated screen was about it,so try and find one of these with the most toys you can if possible.
I myself have a Phase 1 V6 RXE which is one of only 9 on the road in the U.K,i owned 2 of these(1 i broke recently)which was roadworthy but the spares are so rare that i had to buy a roadworthy example just to get a good spares backup,i know of about 5 of the 9 roadworthy examples and about 2 of the SORN examples(about 12 SORN i think)
As for a PHASE 1 the V6 RXE is the ultimate,in early pre Jan 94 form(i could go into exact dates etc with the V6 but thats pointless as a starting lesson)
This was the Safrane with the most toys ever fitted and with all the options,leather,CD player and ergomatic seats its an amazing car,but super rare to find even in poor condition,but i have a huge spares backup if you find one!!!
As with any car rust,neglect and fuel have to be thought about,the oldest Safrane is 20 years old,i work for Renault so i can help with parts and advice but i know that the parts supply is drying up very quickly.
If you find a Safrane you fancy post it on here and we can give you some advice,wonder if you find a V6 good luck with that it took me 3 years to track a 2nd one down!!!!

I don't know much about the ph1 but I can speak for the ph2.. here is what i would look out for:

Engine size: 2L / 2.5L Not much in it MPG wise but the 2L is underpowered so takes more effort to get going. The 2.5 has more power so will need less effort to get going but is still generally thirstier than the 2L. Personally I prefer the 2.5. As standard it has most of the safrane toys whereas many 2L cars have the sheer minimum - you'll be lucky to get rear leccy windows!

There are still some good 2.5s out there but they are few and far between. Because servicing is difficult (costs and tech info / knowledge) quite a few live neglected lives. A lot of mechanics will turn them away while others will claim that they can do anything and fail miserably with the safrane. They are not normal cars.. very quirky, very odd, very little is 'normal' but they are great cars! They're also very unpopular with many people who are badge snobs but if you're someone who loves creature comforts, reliability and toys, you'll love the safrane.

Things to watch / look out for?:
Keys - You want 2
V5 - I've also done an HPI check on the car
Any steering noises (knackered strut bearings but if you're really unlucky the steering rack)
Rattles from the rear suspension
Emissions on last MOT
Cambelt / water pump / tensioners AND Aux belt / tensioners - Every 7 years or 70K miles. You can inspect the belt on the 2.5 as it has 2 spy holes. Check that this has been done at some point WITH THE TENSIONERS / rollers. I had contact with a bloke 2 years back that had done the belt and not the rollers.. result? Knackered engine when the rollers seized, belt jumped, valves knackered. Also the aux belt can snap, jump under the cambelt guard and knacker the cambelt too so be sure to check both belts have been sorted.
Autobox.. Most make a loud thud in reverse or going into drive. Unsure if this is a serious issue but my reverse thud softened when I changed the ATF. Speaking of which if it smells burned or black you might want to reconsider buying the car you're looking at (though mine was like that, I done the ATF and its been fine since).
Exhaust - Helpful if its been replaced recently as its about £100 per section and that is from anywhere BUT renault dealers.
Climate control sensor - should have a mild buzzing sound with the ignition on. If not, the motorized sensor is dead and £180 to replace. You can often buy the complete panel on ebay for £20-30 including sensor.
Central locking - Infra red is rock solid (square keys). RF (round keys) can be a pita. The system can completely die just from a power surge and then randomly spring back to life months later (yet renault will tell you £Mega repairs are needed). Also the RF fobs do weird things with the batteries. The batteries can be good, the key will output a signal yet the car won't un/lock. Put in another set of batteries and it'll work.
Boot handle - Rust hotspot. Only unlock by pulling the handle then lift the hatch using the spoiler.
Heater blower - prone to burning out. That said, in 3 safranes I've never suffered this myself.
Windscreen condensation - A few main causes that I've found.. wet leaves on the scuttle / water / moisture in the bulkhead, recirculation flap failure (can be caused by the control panel - close / open and it'll sort itself out and open up again - just remember to do this each time you turn it on!) OR cracked bond at the bottom of the windscreen.
Electric seats are generally hassle free but they loose the memory when you disconnect the battery.
Alloy wheel key - They're a pita to get out if the key isn't supplied with the car! The bolts can be broken off but they leave the threaded part in the wheel which will need drilling out.
Speaking computer - make sure its turned on when you check out a safrane. It won't always talk but when buying a car you want every warning possible if something serious is wrong!
Electric windscreen - optional on all 2.5s but weirdly I got lucky with all 3 of ours having one. They can be intermittent and also drop dead suddenly. No idea why and you can't really test it but its something to bare in mind as they cost in the region of £5-600 each so make sure you're policy covers you for replacement!

Not much else I can think of really. I used to have a checklist of things to look for that was far better than the above but I'll be damned if I can remember them all now!

Many thanks for the details guys -much appreciated.
Regarding exhausts, I've just found this ad on Ebay that's a bit better:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-Rear- ... 484wt_1416
a rear box for £28.49 and £11 postage is a little better!

Best wishes,
David.

I'm very dubious of that exhaust box. For a start they're normally a square shape and those rear mounts don't look right either. The front part of the pipe looks correct so it should in theory connect to the rest of the exhaust I'm just sceptical about the silencer itself and the mounting of it.

Remember that has to handle a 2.5 (technically 2.4) engines output.. that doesn't look solid enough for the job for my liking.

There is also the height factor. That thing only looks half the height of the box shaped exhaust and that has the outlet pipe mounted half way down and it only just sticks out under the rear bumper. With the one on ebay the pipe is also half way down yet it looks half the height which would put it at 1/4 way down the normal square silencer. That would mean that the pipe wouldn't escape the rear bumper and you may well end up with exhaust emissions trapped under the bumper and seeping up into the boot and cabin of the car (slow moving traffic wise anyway). I could be way off the mark with this theory though.

Here's one owners review of the Saf, which may help folks (like me) looking for one. It's quite comprehensive for an online review:
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/cars/renault-safrane/1112336/

One thing I have seen in cars offered on Ebay and elsewhere is mention of rust problems under the rear wheel arches and the rear generally. Are these inevitable problems or were they due to dodgy batches of steel (aka penny pinching) in the construction? In other words, are some years better than others for rust on Safs?

Best wishes,
David.

Hi David
Thats a very interesting writeup,good reading,rust does seem to be a problem,but just give a potential car a very close look over,they don,t rot badly but the youngest is 12 years old now so rust is going to be there,unless you are very lucky,but rustfree examples are out there,just a question of finding one.
I think phase 1s are actually a touch better than phase 2s for rust as a phase 2 has a common rust area around the rear tailgate handle which a phase 1 doesn,t suffer with.
The V6 Phase 1 i broke didn,t have a speck of rust on it(O.K it didn,t have a straight panel)but no rust.
You just got to do your homework,decide what version you fancy,engine size,man or auto,phase 1 or 2 etc then let us know what you want and a price range,then we can keep our eyes open.

They all rust. The rear tailgate and in the rear arches are common, most in the scrappy I have seen all had holes at the top of the rear wheel arches into the car.

They are easy to work on i can't understand why anyone turns them away, certainly easier than most of the stuff I deal with daily and my primary job is an engine builder.

As for 2l / 2.5. I have a 2l its slow and thirsty. 130 mph is all you get but it will sit at a ton on cruise control happily enough. As for mpg I get anywhere from 20 - 30 mpg but I don't hang about.

Insurance for the 2.5 when I checked was cheaper than the 2l! Work that out!

Cambelts are pretty easy no idea why anyone struggles to do them. the water pump is a bit of a faff to change (tight space) but again theres worse cars out there to do them on.

Autos are pretty good, they need the oil changed and this sorts out most issues with them. They are the same as the volvos so search for the flush thing if you are so inclined to do it that way. Just use the right fluid.

Most parts are used on other renaults so spares aren't an issue aside form trim etc. The usual strut bearings wear but they are the same items used on small renaults so what do you expect.

Exhausts are the same on the diesels and 2 litres from the cat back I have a diesel exhaust on mine.

The handbrake cables are an issue as is the plate they bolt to. It rots and breaks apart.

Climate control temp sender, the fan usually blocks with dust so a clean usually sorts it. If not then they are the same on 99% of cars out there.The plugs sometimes differ the fan sender unit is the same.

Heater fans are common, most are missing at the scrappies and indeed mine was dead when I got it and I pulled a new one from a scrapped car.

Window regs are another area, the motors get water in them and corrode to nothing, especially if the cars sat for any length of time.

The loom into the bootlid will most likely have a few broken wires, easy enough to let new wire in to sort that out.

Cruise control button on the steering wheel can be dodgy, I have worn out 2 of them in a year (I use cruise all the time).

Brakes are crap on the 2l and diesels they are smaller discs than meganes, they use the old 262mm discs, the megane/laguna 285's or 305's are a good upgrade but they won't fit under the 15 inch wheels. They are just not up to modern standards or if you are used to sporty stuff they are poor.

The cobra alarm fitted at the docks when they were brought into the uk can be troublesome, so either remove it or fix it. I fixed it but binned the rotten siren (with burst leaking batteries).

Worth getting if you know what you are getting into which is a heavy on fuel slow tanker. But they soldier on and are quiet and comfy and the climate control is great.

If you want speed then a turbo volvo or a big merc is a better idea tbh, but they are dearer.

Don't get one to sell on, you won't sell it on. Not worth anything to anyone thats not in the club so to speak.

I would go 2.5 though just for the extra poke.

I looked at turboing mine with a Volvo engine but the fact the insurance on the turbo volvo is half the price of the safrane put that out of my head in a jiffy. The safrane is expensive to insure,my 19 16V is 200 quid less and a brand new m5 is cheaper still (yeah work that out). The 2.5 is also cheaper than the 2l for me to insure for some reason.

also exhaust mounts, I seem to snap one every 6 months, cheap so just change them all.

Brilliant list of things to look out for,to be honest i can,t add much to this,its about the same on a Phase 1 really and if you are brave enough or lucky to find an early V6 then you will have computer controlled suspension(plays up)electric rear seats and electric adjustable steering column to deal with.But i have all these spare incase anyone needs the parts!