The Safrane.Info Forum!

Just wondered if any other owners suffer with condensation on the glass within the vehicle?

My car always seems to get internal condensation on the windscreen and rear window during colder weather when not in use. Everything is closed and done up.

You have damp in there somewhere - IE water. This probably means you also have a leak somewhere too - trust me I've been suffering with this for a few years and when i eventually found the leak... things changed.

When the air pressure drops at night, the water attempts to (if you'll excuse my lack of scientific terminology) start floating up - like it would mist / fog in a field. Now you have a roof and glass in the way to stop it escaping and so it hits that and settles in the form of condensation.

My drivers dootwell carpet used to be soaking wet. When I lifted it I had about an inch of water just sat there - soaked into the foam which is about 1.5 inches thick.

Two key areas to check for water: Spare wheel bay in the boot (again I found a big puddle here - water gets in through the wiper arm hole) and the front footwells.

If you do have a leak in the footwells it can be a bugger to fix too. I had to dismantle the front half of the cabin and take the (heavy) waterlogged carpets out to get it done. It turned out to be coming through the wiring pipe behind the door / fusebox that goes through into the wheel arch. The rubber inside the pipe had all cracked up and rain water from the bulkhead drain was running down the wire in the wheel arch straight to this plastic pipe with perished rubber inside and leaking straight into the footwell. I took the plastic fitting out, opened it up (it's a hinged piece) and filled it up with gutter sealant - and i mean i took the nozzle off the sealant and just pumped it in nice and thick before squeezing the thing back together and refitting it. So far I've had no leaks again though the back of the car still condensates so i need to deal with that next.

I've had the carpet out for two months now and not one puddle in either footwell.

Oh one warning.. to take out the carpet you have to remove the seats. Not such a hassle but under them are round black seat sockets that are clipped into the chassis. You need a bit of pipe to slide over them from below to force the plastic tabs inwards to release them or you'll have to smash them out with force.

Thanks for the informative reply. I'll check the area where the spare wheel is stored in the boot as in the past a puddle of water has been found in there.

The cabin from what I recall does not have wet patches on the floor or doors etc. Just on the windscreen and rear glass...I'm therefore thinking this could be coming from the boot and another puddle of water has possibly formed in the spare tyre storage. I'll investigate.

Thanks for the tips of where to look.

Interesting about the rear wiper arm. In the past I thought water getting into the spare wheel storage and the boot was due to the rubber trim possibly being loose somwhere on the outside rear of the car.

Well my wiper arm hole is flaking up so thats where its coming from on ours. It could be different with yours but you must remember that these cars are getting old and things start to wear out (seals etc).

As for the front footwells, you won't notice any water there unless you press right down on it with your thumbs very hard. Under the carpet there is foam that is about 1.5 inches thick (sound proofing and heat insulation) and it soaks into this. The actual carpet is not directly on the metal thus you won't see the wet patch unless you press down to see if water comes up.

One tip I do have for you, if you have a recurrent leak that you can't fix, wooden cat litter pellets work wonders for soaking up water and then you can hoover it all out (you'll need to empty the hoover 5-6 times in the process lol).

Yes around the rear wiper arm hole is a little discoloured from memory so this is probably where the leak is coming from.

I'll try pressing down in the footwells too.

I bought a giant silicone type bag thing off the well known auction site and had it on the parcel shelf groove. It probably needs baking in the oven to be effective again. It cost a few pounds a couple of so years ago. Good tip about the cat litter.

On mine the sunroof drain gets blocked and when it's not heavy rain it seeps down the 'A' posts. Only really know there's a real problem after serious rain and it sloshes out the roof console the 1st time I brake. Removed the wheel cover and unblocked the pipe with a bit of wire.
Despite this is has a tendency to fog easily but I guess that's because I don't use it often, so I've started using the RainX Anti-fogging stuff. Seems to work well but obviously isn't a cure for a leak.

I just realised i can contribute to that having suffered it myself!

The pipe as you say is behind the wheel arch and has a small plastic fitting designed to stop things crawling up it but let water out:



1 is the pipe. Unblock and suddenly a ton of water falls out through it. Incidentally though when the water has pooled up in the roof A frame on each side keep an eye on the metal work - ours is slowly bubbling now in that corner. I suspect I will need to have some metal work done here at some point

2 however is another weakpoint. It's the fitting filled with rubber that carries the wires from the cabin to the side indicators, wiper motor and screen wash pump. Water drains down from the scuttle through a drain hole, it then lands on this wiring loom and runs straight to the fitting. Now I found i was having a puddle in the footwell problem and eventually tracked it down to this fitting. When i removed it (screwed in behind the fusebox and a pain to get out) and opened it up, the rubber inside was all cracked and wet so water had clearly been going through. I cut out the cracked rubber and then smothered it in rubber gutter sealant, closed the plastic fitting back up, fitted it back to the car and then further smothered the outside of it too. It doesn't look pretty I'll admit that but its functional and out of sight with the wheel arch liner fitted.

Great pic Saffles,shows the crap idea that Renault had of putting a plug on the end of the sunroof drain tube,with a stupid little flap on the end,Lagunas had the same design,i bin them straight away and clean out the inner arches of mud at the same time.
The loom design isn,t great either and that must of been a real pain to track down as a water leak,nightmare.
Don,t forget the carpet inside the car is actually plastic backed so water etc can get under the carpet but the outer carpet feels bone dry,coolant leaks aswell are a problem,the matric can leak and seep under the carpet.

Yes a big pain. Every time i thought I had got to the bottom of it, i'd put the carpet back, leave it alone and a week or three later once we'd had plenty of rain and i'd find it flooded again under the carpet. To say it was frustrating would be an understatement. I fixed three rubber gromits that had come loose and none of that stopped it (they were a pain to find too) and then I eventually noticed that the corner side of the sound proofing up against the wheel arch was always wetter than the side towards the centre. That lead me to the wiring loom fitting / pipe. I've done that and so far no leaks. There is a rust spot in each footwell that i wanted to grind down and deal with but in this weather i am wasting my time even hoping to get it done so the carpet has just gone in back over it and i will have to deal with it next year sometime somehow. I suspect i'll need to have the sat nag console back out anyway to deal with the scuffs and scratches so i'll do it all in one go.



On the ph2 it doesn't seem to be plastic backed - believe me there was no hiding my puddle of water lol. I've heard about the heater matrix on these being a pain but so far (touch wood) I've had no signs of this being a problem. Having removed one from the previous safrane i broke up, i can tell you it's a PIG of a job to do and i don't say that lightly. The dashboard needs to come out (possibly with seats and centre consoles too) and then you have to dismantle the blower motor unit and then unbolt it all from the back of the engine bay.. disconnecting the exhaust first and then removing the heat shields... Not a job I would ever want to do in a hurry. I could do it but i'd want to hire a workshop for a week to get it done.

Somewhere on here it's mentioned that the sunroof has 4 drains. I've cleared the front 2 again (3rd time in 7 years) but can't see the back 2. Obviously the sunroof itself is in the way at the top but I can't work out where they exit the car either... Any ideas?