The Safrane.Info Forum!

Hello and greetings from Finland!

Being a Citroën fanatic i wanted to broaden my views a little when my Xsara VTS started to be a little too unpractical hobby car for the whole family. When an opportunity appeared to get a Safrane i quickly jumped to it without much thought. I've always liked the french exec cars, although my preference would have been an XM. Safranes are so rare here in Finland you can't find much discussion nor spare parts, so i decided to get international.

My Saf is a '96 with the 2.5 Volvo unit and manual gearbox. There's some better sound system and electric/air controlled seats. Can't say what else is optional and what's not, but i suppose there's a talking on board computer because i found a button that mutes the radio and puts "speech" on the screen. Can't hear anything though. After sleeping a night and driving about a 100km i still have no regrets about the car :) The soundproofing is awesome and ride feels pretty good for something as primitive as conventional suspension The engine is a small disappointment though, there isn't that much power with lower RPM and that's what i'd want for a car like this. But when i floor it, the 5 really gets going with a nice sound :D

And now to the problems:

- ABS not working, and no light on the dash either. Is there a way to test the sensors from the ABS ECU connector or something? Judging by the pipes i guess the ABS unit is under the battery?
Any other good tips on locating the fault? Of course i need to check that the light on the dash is ok.

- Driver's seat broke when i was testing it, the frame broke loose on the outer front corner and the seat tilts back on in it's base. Looks like I might be able to weld it up in car if i can remove the outer side panel.

- Some dead bulbs on the instrument panel and heater control buttons. Can anyone tell the type of the bulbs and how many of them should i need to change all of them? The ABS light too.

- Indicators don't go off when i turn the wheel straight. Is it the usual "button" on the stalk which is actuated by a nudge on the steering column?

- Door handles work poorly, they need to pe pulled all the way back to open doors. The driver's door need to be pulled in when opening it from inside. I guess they can be adjusted?

- Sometimes when i adjust the heater, there appears a small "service" text on the bottom of the screen. What could be the problem? Some flap jamming up?

That's about it after the first day. I hope there isn't much more :)

Hello and welcome! Greetings from the UK



Those were not available here, the 2.5 was automatic only.



Again we didn't get the air powered seats but they did in Ireland... life is so unfair lol



Yes there is. There should be a speaker behind the panel under the steering wheel near the middle of the car. I've taken it off countless times and forgotten to plug the speaker back in - so that is the first thing to check. Failing that, you may have a dead voice synthesizer (or some other fault).



Despite the age of the ph2 safrane, most owners seem to feel the same. We have one that has been off the road for five years and i still cannot let it go. Instead of getting another newer car i've sunk stupid money into repairing the safrane. It's almost done... i just need permission from the missus to finish it



You should see the springs on the front shock absorbers - they're very big. I had mine off and wire brushed them to remove the rust... my neighbour thought they had come from a lorry!



Open it up on a good road with sports mode... then you'll like it a bit more



Check the fuse for the ABS - some people pull it out to avoid ABS trouble. On one safrane i had years ago the owner fitted a switch to the driver seat so that he could turn it off outside his house as he used to get snow and couldn't get up / down the hill - the abs used to give him hassle.



Do you mean the long black panel outside the car under the door? - There is a screw at the back of the wheel arch, screws on top of it under the door and some plastic fittings under it - which break and cannot be replaced.



No idea what type of bulb, i just took mine from the previous safrane - and another safrane... and another... lol.



Not sure what you mean about the button but the stalk failing to click off is a common problem - i've suffered this with all three safranes and if i'm honest, never investigated it.



Not a clue.



Replacing the entire panel solved that problem for me - it seems to be a climate panel fault. I'm not sure if its something renault programmed intentionally so that the owner would take it in for regular servicing / maintain the air con or if it is a fault that has developed somewhere else in the system but i replaced the panel and the service indicator didn't show up again - that made me think it was the panel itself and not the aircon system.

Regards to Finland

Thanks or the tip, i'll check the speaker when i change the bulbs. I'm eager to hear what language it speaks :D The car's an import from Germany, but i have a Finnish owner's manual with examples in Finnish. The manual doesn't say anything about changing the language, but i'm pretty sure it won't speak in Finnish :) Judging by the "SPEECH" on the screen i guess it'll speak in English...


Sounds reasonable if there's a broken bulb too. I guess the light should be lit if the fuse is blown?


I mean the side panel of the seat which has the electric adjustment switches and the heater button. I managed to take it off and find out where it's broken. A part of the seat's front end up/down-adjustment mechanism is broken. Maybe it's be possible to weld it in the car, but there's a very real possibility have a nice little french bonfire afterwards so i guess i'll remove the seat before any welding will take place :) Looks pretty straightforward, just 4 bolts from under the car and a bunch of electric connectors.


I meant it's a common problem in many other cars i've met, but if your's have always been like that, then maybe it's just the way it should be :) At least Citroën CX's indicators work that way, but there's isn't even a stalk for them...


Thanks for your help. I guess i'll just drive the Saf for a few days more while i wait for spare parts for my van, and after i get it back on the road i'll start investigating the Safrane better. After all i meant it to be a summer driver.

I haven't found any up/down adjustment for the steering wheel, only in/out. Is this really true? The electric seats help with the problem, but for a shorty like me there's hard to find a good driving position and still see the trip computer screens :)

The electric windshield works only on the other side, but gladly it's the driver's side :) That's not a big deal though...

There's also a problem with IR remote locking. Central locking works from the button on the ceiling, but not from keys. The keys do emit a signal when checking with a camera but the car doesn't respond. I tried the procedure i found here to press the locking button on the ceiling for a while (either way) until the doors open and lock again and then pressing the remote buttons but to no avail. Am i doing it rong or should i just try replacing the IR thingy with a universal RF remote?

My biggest worry now is that the oil on the dipstick looks like irish cream. But it doesn't look bad on the top side when checking from the filler cap opening. I guess i'll just change the oil with a good flush and see how it goes. I've been using diesel for engine flushing, i take 1-2 liters of old oil out, put the same amount of diesel in and let it idle for 20 minutes. Haven't done any damage with that but there's some nasty goo coming out :D

In truth, I have no idea!



Yes but be VERY careful when handling them. Inside the panel with the switches is the trigger for the side IMPACT air bags. They are not electronically triggered but triggered by impact.

That said, they do require a hell of a force to trigger them. I had a spare one from a dismantled seat. Normally I store them in a box wrapped up very carefully but with this one I couldn't be bothered so i let my brother in law stamp on it with his foot. It took him multiple attempts to make it fire and he's a big lad with very strong legs! It sounded like an explosion when it did go



Yes unfortunately it only goes in and out. It's a crazy idea. The ph1 (earlier model) did have up / down (I think) and on the rare models it was electric too but i've never seen it on ph2. The air powered seats are rare on ph2 also.



This is a common problem.. I do not know if it is a fault with the windscreen or the car - I've never managed to look into it yet.



Try replacing the batteries. The IR keys are generally very reliable. We had two safranes with IR and one with RF. The RF one did the same as yours - stopped working and despite having the signal tested with a signal meter and finding the keys worked well, it made no difference to the car - which would not lock or unlock. I *think* it's a battery quality issue. The cheap batteries don't seem to deliver enough current / voltage to do the job properly. The better ones seem to work better.

Also these cars have a problem in the roof where the switches are. Condensation (water droplets) build up on the metal roof and then drip down onto the wiring and into the switches. You'll suddenly hear your car start locking and unlocking itself for no good reason... but that may also interefere with the decoder circuit.

If you do have condensation up there it means you have a leak in your car somewhere so press down on the carpet in the driver and passenger front footwells to see if any water comes up (the foam underneath is about 1 inch thick so press hard).



No comment about the diesel other than i wouldn't do it myself because i don't know what effect it would have.

As for the dipstick, it's common on the volvo engine for it to have cream on the stick. No idea why but I *think* (from memory) that it indicates a breather problem / blockage for the future. It's common on al the volvo 850 engines - the folks at volvoforums.co.uk often speak of it. No idea about the gearbox dipstick - I try not to look at it incase it scares me

I haven't actually checked it, but i'm pretty sure my seats don't have airbags. I mean the only air bags they have are the adjustable ones I wonder if there even is room for both, but i suppose there's still the pretensioner to watch out for...

I put a pair of new Duracell batteries to the other key and the signal seems strong. I took the roof console out and it doesn't look like it's gotten wet.

Am i right that the ph2 shouldn't be as prone to water leaks as the ph1? At least read something like that somewhere...

It's a relief to hear that the creamy dipstick is a common problem, and not that big a deal. Although at lower sub-zero temperatures the breathers are getting a bit problematic if there's lots of that creamy foam in them. Some PSA XU engines are very notorious here for failing because a frozen breather hose. That's why Citroën have long been supplied with plastic grille covers for winter here, while drivers of other marques use pieces of cardboard instead :D

Welcome to the forum,if you get a chance can you post some pics of your car,and maybe of the issues you are having?
We never got the 2.5 in the U.K with a manual box,would of been nice...
The ABS pump is under the battery tray,but i would say you may have an issue elsewhere,but most of the time this will bring up an ABS fault on the dash.
The seats are easy to remove,underside there are 2 nuts holding the outer runner and the inner runner bolts are inside the inner chassis rail but under 2 large rubber bungs,remove these to see the bolts,its best to remove the seat for welding etc and easier.
The dash/heater bulbs are very small capless bulbs that pull from there holders,they are small and thin,bit like these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-X-286-CAR- ... XQDnpTZkdd
The indicators not cancelling maybe down to the actual switch not working correctly,i would try a S/H one first if not then it will be the rotor switch that the switches,both indicator and wiper attach to.
The door handles have various clips and threaded rods used in the setup,i found this on one breaker that a handle was bad to open on the inside,you will have to remove the doorcards and have a look.
The SERVICE showing when you adjust heater,does this happen when you have the AC on?if so the AC gas is low or empty and it needs a regas.
Post some pics would love to see it!

Thanks for the tips!

I thought they'd probably be T5 bulbs which mostly come with that plastic base.

Threaded rods and plastic clips on door mechanisms sounds familiar, i have to check on those.

I haven't had time to wash the car yet to take pictures but here's some by the last owner:
http://aijaa.com/a/iYgHrv

Not necessarily... On two of the ph2 safranes we've had they both had the service indicator come on... both were full of AC gas (I had them both sucked out when dismantling) and both stopped displaying the service indicator when i swapped the panels out for others.

I still have both good climate control panels boxed up as spares.. because they work without the service indicator.

Wohoo, my Saf speaks! The speaker was disconnected, just as Saffles suspected. Too bad it speaks in German :D
I read somewhere, maybe here, that on ph2 the language could be changed at a Renault dealer. I wonder if CLIP can do it too?

I also took a look at the indicator return mechanism, and it only moves the stalk a little but not enough to make it return. Can't say if the mechanism itself is worn or the two bumps behind the wheel which actuate the mechanism. In a little hurry i tried to fix hem by adding small drops of epoxy on both little bumps to make them bigger, and ta-daa, it now returns when returning from right. I guess i'll have to do it again and maybe find some better way to make the bumps a bit bigger.

I also tried to take the driver's door card out to study the adjustment of the inner handle but i couldn't get it off. I have the handle out, the lower panel out and off course all screws, but it still is held in place somewhere above and behind the heater channel opening. I didn't use much force since it's alittle below zero degrees Celsius outside and i don't want to break any plastic clips.

Then i saw the 3 screws holding the door latch itself, loosened them and moved the latch a little more inside the door and now it works just fine. Didn't take it on the road yet but i hope it helps with that little whissing noise coming from the door at high speeds too.

After driving the Saf for a few days my wife's '02 Citroën C5 started feeling quite noisy

I found an universal RF remote kit which i connected to the locking switch on the roof panel. It works fine, but the front doors won't always lock/unlock. Are the wires used on doors as bad as on PSA cars?

Didn't test how it was before but i doubt that rf thingy made no difference...